Bill Sullivan was interviewed in the March 24, 2005, Electronic Retailer Association newsletter. Here is the complete, unedited version of the interview.

ERA: Bill, how did you get involved in the radio direct response industry, and what led you to form William Sullivan Advertising?

BILL SULLIVAN: I started media buying in the early 80s at Vitt Media where I bought radio for the Macy's account in New York City. This is where I learned how to negotiate the lowest cost per thousand. After leaving Vitt Media, I worked for 1010 WINS radio in New York where I learned how to crunch gross ratings points to negotiate the highest possible rates for each daypart. After seven years with 1010 WINS, I realized there was a need for an agency that could cater specifically to the needs of direct response radio advertisers, and that's what lead me to open my own agency. While William Sullivan Advertising is a full service advertising agency, our specialty is creating and buying direct response live spot radio. The successes we've had in categories from anti-aging products to nutritional supplements to weight loss to pianos to financial services companies and more have led to my present successful business model of live personal endorsement spot radio. I'd like to think that my experiences both as a buyer and as a station rep has given me valuable insights into the needs of both my clients and my media partners.
 
ERA: What are some of the top challenges you see facing radio direct response in the coming years? Do you feel that the advent of satellite radio (e.g. XM, Sirius) has had/will have serious impact on radio direct response, whether positively or negatively?

BILL SULLIVAN: The same forces that affect the DRTV world also affect the DR radio world. DR clients flourish when rates are low and their return on investment can be maximized. When the economy is strong and retailers and big companies are doing well, they buy up media, forcing rates up. This hurts DR clients because their media expenses increase accordingly. True, a strong economy means there's more money in the hands of consumers to spend, which is good news for DR companies, but it costs more for them to get their message out.

As for the emergence of satellite radio, I see it as analogous to the early days of cable television. Pundits of the time didn't think anyone would want to pay for cable when they could watch broadcast television for free. Cable certainly has eroded the viewership of broadcast stations, but cable has created a new way for advertisers to reach consumers. In fact, the diversity of cable allows advertisers to better target their desired demographics. I'm hopeful that satellite radio will offer similar opportunities. Quite honestly, I'm wondering if the rise of the iPod culture might have a stronger negative impact on music stations than satellite radio. On the other hand, personal cassette and CD players didn't kill radio, so I guess there's reason to be optimistic.
 
ERA: In your experience, what are some of the most common pitfalls associated with converting a television campaign into a radio spot?

BILL SULLIVAN: The biggest pitfall is assuming that DRTV creative can be transferred to radio without making any concessions to the needs and interests of radio listeners. A long form radio program is not likely to succeed when it is just a TV show with the images stripped out. For one thing, you have to deal with the theater of the mind as opposed to having beautiful models demonstrating your product. Another major consideration is that the rhythms of radio programming are much different than those of television. The four act structure with hard sell breaks that succeed on television are likely to alienate radio listeners.

You have to tailor your creative to the interests and expectations of radio listeners. People who listen to radio shows are looking for information and provocative conversation. They are more likely to respond to your call to action if it presented not as a sales pitch, but as information provided by your show's host or guest speaker. A straight-forward conversation between an engaging host and a well-spoken and inspirational expert on the subject at hand, plus a limited number of expert or user testimonials will captivate your audience and build the reality that is critical to success.

In radio, you have to create reality in the audience's mind without the benefit of showing them pictures, and it's the pictures that drive DRTV. To convey reality in the imaginations of radio listeners requires sharp writing and experienced voice talent. One of the great advantages of radio is that sometimes imagined reality is far more potent than filmed reality as it allows the consumer to picture their lives improved through your product.

ERA: You recently attended the ERA Mid-Winter Conference and spoke on radio DR during the roundtable educational session. For those unable to attend, what advice did you offer on how to garner the best results?

BILL SULLIVAN: First and foremost, you have to provide an offer that the listener can't refuse. Your message has to be so compelling that the listener will want to stop whatever they are doing and dial your number. And that number has to be easy to remember. A vanity number is the best way to go—people are going to remember 1-800-YOUR-NAME far more easily than a random string of numbers, especially since they don't see the numbers. Of course, the vanity number has to be something that is easy to spell! How many people can spell "faux pas"—not that I advocate anyone naming a product faux pas, but it demonstrates my point. Faux pas sounds nothing like it's spelled. Your vanity number must be memorable and easy to spell.

You have to be honest. One of radio's strongest selling points is its believability. Your message has to be real. Radio is not just about producing a witty commercial and buying time. It's about building a level of trust between you and your audience.

Once people do call, you have to close the sales. If your telemarketing agents can't close sales, then it doesn't matter how many calls your radio campaign generates. For a campaign to have longevity, you have to have a back end: continuity programs, additional products, special offers for existing customers and unclosed leads. Here is where direct mail and outbound telemarketing can be key to the success of a radio campaign. Experts in DRTV already do this, so they should understand how important it is to radio as well.

I think one area where people unfamiliar with radio make a common mistake is believing that you should buy only drive time or the top rated dayparts. That cuts you off from a significant percentage of any station's audience. Unlike television viewers who sit on the couch with a remote control in hand, ready to change the channel in a fraction of a second, radio listeners are very loyal. Once they choose a station, they are likely to stick with it for significant periods of time. The greater your frequency, the more likely you are to reach a larger total percentage of a radio station's audience, unlike television. And "fringe" times (overnights, weekends, etc.) have lower rates and often a completely different listenership than drive time, so you open yourself up to a greater number of impressions while lowering your overall average cost per lead/sale.

Another point that must be made—the price point of your product or service must be much higher for spot radio than for television. This brings us back to the relative sizes of the audiences. Radio has a much smaller audience, so you can't count on volume sales to offset the media costs. However, the most successful radio advertisers take the long view—they have continuity programs, catalogs of additional products, or retail distribution. They can look at the lifetime value of a customer as opposed to the one-time sale of a single widget at a "special low price of only..."

I'd like to think that the most important point I made was that if you are interested in getting into radio—which I naturally advocate—you should talk to radio experts. If you want to buy an airplane, you don't go to someone whose area of expertise is hot air ballooning. Sure, they both fly, but by very different methods. The same is true when comparing DRTV to DR radio. While some of the theory might be the same, if you want to make the best investment, you go to someone who knows all the benefits and possible drawbacks of the medium, and will be honest with you about them.
 
ERA: What are some of the top benefits you identify with your ERA membership? As one of our first DR radio members, why did you choose to join a "traditionally DRTV" association?

BILL SULLIVAN: I learned about the ERA through telemarketing agencies with whom I worked. They would ask me where the leads I was providing came from, and were surprised to learn that they were from radio. My telemarketing partners suggested I look into the ERA, and I have to say that I'm glad I did. I became a member because I knew there was a great deal DRTV experts and I could learn from each other. I know I've spent a lot of time talking about the differences between radio and television, but even if the approaches to the creative and buying strategies have to be different between the two, there are a lot of similarities—particularly the necessity of having a strong back end to support the ongoing health and growth of a company.

Through my conversations with the ERA staff and members, I've learned how to improve my tracking. We all know how important tracking is and my company has always provided tracking reports for our clients, but I've picked up some excellent suggestions on how to refine our processes. I've also made important contacts, so on the rare occasions that I can't answers my clients' questions or solve their problems, I can find someone who can.

I've been very happy with the welcome I've received from the ERA. The staff has always been quick to answer my questions and it's been great to compare notes with fellow members about what has and hasn't worked in the past. We're all dedicated to making all electronic media work and we can all learn from each other's successes and missteps. To me, that is the most exciting part of being a part of the ERA

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